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Post by oldfox on Jan 18, 2011 16:42:49 GMT -5
IGYB-
I don't believe people are saying that the players don't want to put forth their best efforts. But you can't really say that Martin's program is working. If players don't believe they are prepared to win, or they don't believe in the system, there is simply no chance that they can compete.
All the people on this board want to see Marist win a championship, not just get close, but get to a MAAC finals and bring the crown back to Poughkeepsie. Some of us have been fans for 20 or 30 years, and have never seen the program look this futile. The state of the program is abyssmal and the overall trajectory is flat, at best. That means we are frustrated, disappointed and growing short on patience.
There was a Martin "hater" or two on this board last year, but they are gone. Everyone here who have become so discouraged still say they would trade their frustration in a heartbeat for a turnaround by Martin. We just want to win and I don't necessarily think we care who the coach is, just that they move the program forward.
So, its not personal with Martin or the players. Everyone here would be feeling very differently, regardless of who the coach is, if the program would only show any consistent improvement.
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Post by Red Fox 5 on Jan 18, 2011 16:59:09 GMT -5
My mom always said if you dont have anything good to say dont say anything. But I have a question if you are a college basketball player and your playing for a losing team and you want to go to another school should you play bad to get out of the school and if you do play bad do you think another school with take you? ? Where are the guys from last year? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I interpreted the above as not a knock on the Marist fans/posters for questioning the kids effort but questioning the effort itself of some of this years sophomores who showed promise last year but have regressed this year (and we speculate some of them may be disheartened with the program and want to transfer). Again let me know if I interpreted that wrong.
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ctfoxfan
All-MAAC 1st Team
Marist Athletics, strive to be under budget!!
Posts: 1,552
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Post by ctfoxfan on Jan 18, 2011 17:26:35 GMT -5
But I have a question if you are a college basketball player and your playing for a losing team and you want to go to another school should you play bad to get out of the school and if you do play bad do you think another school with take you? ? Well thats why if any player leaves it will be to a D-III or NAIA school. Probably where some of these guys belong. Theses kids are very immature and have the attention span of a three year olds. Let them go....any and all. Wait!...hang onto Bowie, Kemp and Prescott. Ill drive the others to the airport right after I drop off the coach. Its a mess, needs to be dismantled and rebuilt by another coach. How anyone could glean anything positive from this misguided group of kids is amazing. Good people...perhaps. Good basketball players, headed in the right direction...you have to be kidding me. Guess what kool-ade drinkers, thay are going to suck next year too. Morton is not 'fixing' this team and dont think for second he is not reconsidering his decision to come here. I am not a 'hater', I simply see the team for what it is. Completely off the rails.
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,214
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Post by ggaff on Jan 18, 2011 21:58:57 GMT -5
Yankee,
I think Murray does an overall great job. Based on your experiences on the MAAC Board, you know knowbody really cares about the other sports. Those Siena idiots get to make Marist jokes even though the Marist program is superior overall. Siena takes hoop more serious. If Marist wants to win, they better start putting more emphasis on men's basketball. That's what it's gonna take. Fair?? No. Reality?? Yes. I know Murray looks disgusted. He supposedly took his time making this decision. If this doesn't work out, it's one hell of a blunder. I think the media coverage up here forces Siena to make hoop important. The fans here don't give a damn about women's basketball. That's what Marist is up against. If they want to win, they better start emphasizing it more. Until that happens, there's no point even having these discussions. The media coverage is a joke in Poughkeepsie. The Siena guys are viewed as celebrities up here. That's what's crazy. Marist has better academics, better campus, better everything. I do think McCann holds them back. Unfortunately, boys take the arena more iseriously than academics, etc. Girls care more about the things that matter. That's why Marist will dominate the women's game. I saw that arena that someone pointed out a while back. It cost 13 million. If Marist had an arena like that, they'd dominate. Instead, they half-ass McCann.
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Post by nomar33 on Jan 18, 2011 22:19:25 GMT -5
First I know many of us the do care about women's basketball - and the city of Poughkeepsie seems to as well as they are I believe in the top 50 in attendence in the country. And that is where McCann becomes a huge selling point when recruiting the women's game - you can go to some of these BCS schools and have great EMPTY arena's of come to Marist and play in front of 2500+ night in night out.
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,214
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Post by ggaff on Jan 18, 2011 23:20:40 GMT -5
I know that we care about women's basketball. They have been awesome. I'm talking about the majority of sports fans. Everybody talks about the advantages that Siena has. I see none other than the TUC and media coverage. Personally, I don't know why Marist can't outrecruit every team in men's basketball. I think the lack of media coverage and the "high school" gym perception are the difference. Hopefully, the improvements give it more of a big-time feel. Personally, I think the atmosphere is great.
Siena women are having a nice year in the MAAC . Nobody cares up here. The Marist women have been by far the most dominant program in any MAAC sport. Unfortunately, outside of Marist fans, nobody cares that much. I want to kick ass in both. Then people will take notice.
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Post by yankee on Jan 19, 2011 6:17:44 GMT -5
Ggaff, and the head coach is what rose Marist to prominence in womens basketball. You don't hear Murray getting that credit or needing it. So, its on Martin to turn this around, and I don't see it with him. Look at many other programs at Marist. They do well. Siena model is nice for their publicity, but Marist model is better for the ENTIRE athletic population. And who cares if the Siena fan brags? As is becoming apparent, they hide in their little holes and get quiet when they struggle. I hope Marist doesn't ever go to a model of giving all the money to the mens program and screwing over every other program. They are on par with almost every MAAC program except Siena in terms of spending money on the MBB program. Some schools may pay higher coach salary, granted on that. Iona, Siena, Fairfield stand out there.
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,214
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Post by ggaff on Jan 19, 2011 7:32:54 GMT -5
I hear you and Nomar on all counts. Just want them to be the top dog. Frustration spills out. I agree. Marist does things the right way. Had a nice conversation with Bobbi Sue Tellitocci at the Siena game about that exact thing. In terms of class, every kid should want to play at Marist. They'll get things straightened out. Just take the same approach that Mr. Giorgis has. I do like the players coming in as well as the majority of guys on the current squad. Just gotta start playing consistent.
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ken
All-MAAC 1st Team
Posts: 1,243
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Post by ken on Jan 19, 2011 9:13:36 GMT -5
It seems to me that there are some Martin must go and some Martin should stay people on this board. The consensus is no where near unanimous.
I ask if anyone has spoken to Tim Murray because at times he appears to be very disgusted by what he witnesses at the men's games. I think the world of Tim Murray and he deserves ALL the credit for putting Marist athletics on top of the MAAC. But very few sports fans care about the commissioners cup, unless you win it that is. Most care about men's hoops. So since Tim is at all the games I thought someone here might have had a conversation with him about what is going on. Maybe Tim is tight lipped about things, I do not know him so I can only guess.
I do know this - Martin is signed through the 2012-2013 season. That's two more years. Unless someone wants to anti up the remaining salary due Chuck Martin, I suggest Marist will not, he's the coach for a while longer. Did it ever dawn on anyone that Tim Murray, the athletics guru, figured out it would take several years to turn things around; hence the 5 year contract. I know there are a lot of unhappy people, on here, on the Marist campus and in the Marist administration. One thing I am pretty sure of, is that they will not pay Chuck Martin to sit at home. Marist has a very bad taste in it's mouth after the Brady debacle. They seem to like Chuck Martin much more than Brady. Therefore they are much more willing than many on this board to wait things out. So you can continue your bitching but he's our coach for a while longer.
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Post by igotyouback on Jan 19, 2011 9:19:50 GMT -5
Red and Old I was just talking out loud that's all.
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Post by hoopfan1 on Jan 19, 2011 9:50:04 GMT -5
This team has talent these kids were recruited by many colleges but they picked Marist, probably because this is a program that’s rebuilding and that provides a chance for them to play right away as a freshman. In other established programs they would be integrated into the program and get increased playing time over the years. CM/Marist has no real STAR player to build a program around. Marist is a school not well known for basketball, and CM also not a coach that is well known. That was the big mistake with selecting Martin. Yes he assisted at some good programs but no name notoriety. That’s what you need to bring the top 100 players in the country to Marist. But we have CM and it will take him a little longer to get a competitive team together. BUT his coaching ability has to be questioned. This team has talent and it takes a talented coach to put the pieces together, teach the college game, make the players understand their role on the team and motivate them to win. I haven’t seen that in CM. They were lost playing Iona. They couldn’t even pass the ball around the 2-3 zone. And what happened to the fast transition game. Iona didn’t stop it – Marist just didn’t run it.
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