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Post by terminator on Mar 7, 2011 16:06:56 GMT -5
oh NO those green bleachers HAD to go - I think football does more for the school then you think. And the little Pioneer League they entered gives us nice exposure to other well known Universities around the country - now i will grant you that the travel expense for that league is silly. No doubt that the bleachers needed to go. But to spend all that money on a football stadium and to pay the travel expense to be in the Pioneer League is ridiculous. The question becomes can the Football program ever win anything close that the Mens Basketball program would win if they won the MAAC tournament?
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Post by Red Fox 5 on Mar 7, 2011 16:09:37 GMT -5
I guess he gets another year, but is there any reason to expect big things from the program. Also, what does he need to do to save his job? Is the bar set low? The biggest reason he gets another year is because we are very sure his contract is for 6 years. Marist would surely eat one year and possibly two of a coaches contract but not three. The bar WAS set too low for this year. Obviously because of that contract, a 6-27, second worst Marist team ever season, was not a fireable offense. In my opinion his resume is fireable but not in the opinion of the administration (yet) and also not in the opinion of some of the fans. What I think about that is not relevant now so I'm just focused on what can be done next year. My bar for next year is AT LEAST 14, 15 16 wins and a MAAC finish in the top 6. That's a big jump from where we are now and it may be impossible but baby steps to 6-12, 10-23 will not cut it for me. I have a feeling that the bar I just set above is similar to what the admin needs to see and that if the team loses 20+ and finishes in the PIG again Martin despite his two yrs remaining will be gone.
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Post by Red Fox 5 on Mar 7, 2011 16:12:23 GMT -5
oh NO those green bleachers HAD to go - I think football does more for the school then you think. And the little Pioneer League they entered gives us nice exposure to other well known Universities around the country - now i will grant you that the travel expense for that league is silly. No doubt that the bleachers needed to go. But to spend all that money on a football stadium and to pay the travel expense to be in the Pioneer League is ridiculous. The question becomes can the Football program ever win anything close that the Mens Basketball program would win if they won the MAAC tournament? The answer is no, and Marist putting money into a FB program when the rest of the conference does not probably does hurt a bit. The renovations to the stadium were good though because it does not only benefit football but also soccer and lacrosse.
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Post by igotyouback on Mar 7, 2011 16:49:01 GMT -5
I have a question of all the academic suspension last year and this year how many where based on Marist academics standards and how many where based on NCAA academics standards?
And are the Marist academic standard the same or higher than the NCAA's
Also how many team in D1 have academic standards that are higher than NCAA.
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Post by yankee on Mar 7, 2011 16:56:29 GMT -5
I think the succession of coaches has had a lot to do with the problems. Magarity was a CLASS act, a great man. However, we hired him right from another NEC school if I remember correctly at a relatively young age. He came in with Smits, so he got to the NCAA tourney. That meant he was gonna have a lot of rope to work with. Then he put together some nice years, with a few bad ones, and mostly mediocre ones. He did just enough to stay. He wasn't a big time connected coach with NYC coaches, or at least I don't remember that ever being talked about, so the recruiting pipeline wasn't there in the area that should be where we recruit from, NY/NJ. Next, we get Brady. Brady is a good coach, but he was a instant climber who didn't want to be here. So, he recruited that way and sent out his resumes. Picking up McCroskey was a tell tale sign he was gone. 1 year guy to get the best record possible. Brady had a good recruiting class coming in, that gets blown up by his treachery. Now we have Martin. He comes in very late, so he has to bring in some players quick who weren't highly ranked. He relies on Schnedier to have a not horrible first year. Martin gets a player we all loved in Drummond. Drummond was a severe risk that didn't work out and no other legitimate bigs where brought in as some type of insurance. Martin has connections and seems to have made some inroads, but it has to be hard to convince players to come to a team that has won 1 game and now 5 games the past 2 years. The coaching cycle has been a big detriment. That is why if Martin fails next year they need to get an older established coach who can right the ship ASAP. Skinner is someone I love, hopefully bring along a young protege to take over after 5 years.
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fox94
MAAC POY
Posts: 2,928
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Post by fox94 on Mar 7, 2011 17:08:34 GMT -5
Don't be knocking football!
The benefits of football:
Pioneer league gives the school exposure Brings the alumni back to campus Great for fund raising - did you know that Raymond Rich gave $$ anonamously to the football program for years? That turned into the biggest gift in school history. develops school spirit School has athletic contacts outside the MAAC for other sport scheduling allows the school to be more attractive in case of conference move (ex. Patriot League)
I suspect having an established football program is going to pay dividends in the future as far as any conference realignment
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Post by yankee on Mar 7, 2011 17:09:51 GMT -5
Don't be knocking football! The benefits of football: Pioneer league gives the school exposure Brings the alumni back to campus Great for fund raising - did you know that Raymond Rich gave $$ anonamously to the football program for years? That turned into the biggest gift in school history. develops school spirit School has athletic contacts outside the MAAC for other sport scheduling allows the school to be more attractive in case of conference move (ex. Patriot League) I suspect having an established football program is going to pay dividends in the future as far as any conference realignment Bingo, great post.
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Post by redfoxfan102 on Mar 7, 2011 17:22:13 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I'm on the anti-football bandwagon too. Exposure to what? People who like obscure 1-AA football leagues? Other athletic contacts, I'm not buying that either. Teams will schedule who they want to schedule based on how it impacts their sport, they won't look at other sports. School spirit? I went there for four years, I don't remember excitement building for one game.
The conference move is one thing; but if you're going to do that, you mine as well do it soon. No one is going to want to pickup a crappy team that finishes in the bottom half of the MAAC every year. Hey Patriot League, do you want to take in a team that can't finish out of the PIG of its own mid-major conference and is borderline at best in line with your academic standards? Hell yea! Sounds great.
Football is a money suck. At best they win the Pioneer Conference, and then what? Exactly. There is no exposure.
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fox94
MAAC POY
Posts: 2,928
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Post by fox94 on Mar 7, 2011 17:37:04 GMT -5
some fox fan...
I'm glad the administration shares my point of view and not yours....
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Post by nomar33 on Mar 7, 2011 17:46:50 GMT -5
There must be some reason all these non-scholarship schools keep Football - otherwisw whynot lose Soccer, Tennis, Crew, etc. From what I understand from the admissions office having a football team is a huge benifit to the college in attracting students. Why don't know but there is a reason and I'm sure it is financially driven otherwise why would a penny pincher like Murray support it?
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,214
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Post by ggaff on Mar 7, 2011 17:53:37 GMT -5
I like having multiple sports. However, if we're talking basketball, football probably hurts it. Siena doesn't spend a dime on football and they've been the top dog. If it pays dividends I'm all for it.. Hoop is the only sport that outsiders follow with the little schools...
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,214
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Post by ggaff on Mar 7, 2011 18:12:58 GMT -5
I think Marist would be fine right now if they had gotten the right coach to replace Magarity. You can't pay a guy $180,000 and expect him to not leave if he gets offered $400,000. You have to at least match what the top small schools pay. Then a coach would only leave for a BCS job. Siena paid Fran $400,000+. What the hell are they worried about $200,000 a yr difference for? It would pay for itself in attendance etc. Charge an extra $5 for tickets and take it for the coach's salary. $15 for a ticket is still a great deal. It's freakin ridiculous. Marist should be the top dog and they aren't. They won't be unless they put the emphasis on it. That's what Siena does. I was talking to more Siena fans at the tourney. They could give a damn about football, women's basketball, etc. As long as their hoop team is going to win 3 titles every 10 yrs, that's all they care about.
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Post by yankee on Mar 7, 2011 18:22:02 GMT -5
I think Marist would be fine right now if they had gotten the right coach to replace Magarity. You can't pay a guy $180,000 and expect him to not leave if he gets offered $400,000. You have to at least match what the top small schools pay. Then a coach would only leave for a BCS job. Siena paid Fran $400,000+. What the hell are they worried about $200,000 a yr difference for? It would pay for itself in attendance etc. Charge an extra $5 for tickets and take it for the coach's salary. $15 for a ticket is still a great deal. It's freakin ridiculous. Marist should be the top dog and they aren't. They won't be unless they put the emphasis on it. That's what Siena does. I was talking to more Siena fans at the tourney. They could give a damn about football, women's basketball, etc. As long as their hoop team is going to win 3 titles every 10 yrs, that's all they care about. Not shocked that Siena fans don't care about the others sports programs and those athletes Ggaff. I don't think we need to be looking to Siena fans as our model. They are 100 % wrong in my opinion dismissing the other programs. Mens basketball is 15 athletes. The entire athletic program is how many athletes? Siena has the entire capital district to draw fans from. They have the TUC to showcase to athletes. They will continue to and should be the top dog. But Marist should be able to be competitive and be top 4 in the conference on a regular basis.
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Post by terminator on Mar 7, 2011 19:13:57 GMT -5
The problem becoming attracting a good coach to Marist then. You need someone that can recruit fairly well, have a good system and be willing to stay for more than four years. If you are doing it on a limited budget then it is going to be tricky. We can't keep starting over with a new coach every four years without winning. We will continue to be a middle to bottom MAAC team and will have to watch Iona, Siena, Rider and Niagara continue to compete for league title while we will be an after thought. Not an easy situation to be in.
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,214
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Post by ggaff on Mar 7, 2011 19:49:44 GMT -5
I hear ya Yankee... I'm just stating why they'll be tough to deal with if Marist doesn't go toe to toe with them... As long as fans are happy to be in the top 4. I'd rather have a dominant hoop team because that's what most people relate to. It's closer to the big time. I root for all of the squads. Just don't think anybody else follows them so it's hard to have a conversation with anybody about them. The baseball team has been pretty good.
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