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Post by nomar33 on Feb 12, 2011 6:39:40 GMT -5
Does anyone really believe that this team can win more then 10 games next year? We are not going to win again this year .. face it we are not. Let's pretend win get one more so we end year with 5 doubling our win total would be a huge endeavor. Is that the number many of you are waiting for in year 4? Maybe by year 5 we have 15.
Anything above that is unrealistic. I have read all the posts and RF5s stats.... if this team has shown zero improvement todate what will change in 9 months? Heck 10 wins would be huge improvement. And you know what I wont be happy. And if 10 wins floats your boat god bless.
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Post by oldfox on Feb 12, 2011 7:51:27 GMT -5
Sticking with the Coach K. analogy the magic number should be 21. In his 4th year as Head Coach K.'s Duke squad won 24 games against 10 losses. So I figure as a % of at 30 game schedule Marist should be racking up a .500 or better record next season.
BTW: I was tempted to use K's first head coaching stint at Army. But in remaining true to the spirit of the Coach K. as a loser early in his career theme, it wouldn't have been fair since his record at Army was 50-31 after his first 3 years.
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ctfoxfan
All-MAAC 1st Team
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Post by ctfoxfan on Feb 12, 2011 8:14:20 GMT -5
Does anyone really believe that this team can win more then 10 games next year? We are not going to win again this year .. face it we are not. Let's pretend win get one more so we end year with 5 doubling our win total would be a huge endeavor. Is that the number many of you are waiting for in year 4? Maybe by year 5 we have 15. Anything above that is unrealistic. I have read all the posts and RF5s stats.... if this team has shown zero improvement todate what will change in 9 months? Heck 10 wins would be huge improvement. And you know what I wont be happy. And if 10 wins floats your boat god bless. Assuming no one gets academically suspended and none of D-I players transfer out... My over under number is about 7. There is nothing going on to suggest an about face. Unless 2 unknown stud juco's come from somewhere it will be more of the same.
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ggaff
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Post by ggaff on Feb 12, 2011 8:16:49 GMT -5
I would say 15 wins is what should be expected. To have any chance at that, Morton has to be an impact player and he needs to bring in a JUCO that can contribute right away. I would expect whatever is normal in yr 3 of a rebuilding program. I say that because the growth is different when you start with juniors who can play in yr 1. In comparing this to any other rebuilding program, I think it's only fair that you compare apples to apples. I would like to think that if he had 2 or 3 seniors who could actually play, last yr(jrs) and this yr would have been easier. Even when programs rebuild, there are usually 2 or three guys from the last regime that you can count on to be at least average to pretty good players to ease the burden for the kiddie corps that you have to rely on. Bauer and Goodwin? Come on... Not saying I'm happy. Just trying to be fair. That's probably why he went the route of Kaba and Drummond. What other choice did he have? If your inherited players suck, which his did, almost every one of first three recruiting classes has to be very good. I don't think any of his recruits have been horrible. It's just that they needed to be better than just pretty good for them to be competitive. When your inherited players are well below average, I think that stunts the growth. Now I'm not saying that I think he's proven to be a great coach or ever will be. I just think that this situation was far worse than some people think. Young players generally progress at a normal rate when they have decent upperclassmen to lead the way. That also makes it much easier for the coach. The coach has guys he can count on. Bauer and Goodwin are far below the average at their positions, which happen to be 2 pretty important positions. I think if we wanted the quick results with this situation, we would have had to go the JUCO rt. I'm not saying he's a great coach or ever will be. I repeat. Just don't think any other coach would have produced much more last yr or this yr.
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ggaff
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Post by ggaff on Feb 12, 2011 8:23:02 GMT -5
That's unless he had the once in a lifetime recruiting class of Moore, Ubiles, and Franklin. Those guys were great together early. They also had some upperclassmen to ease their burden. Fran was perfect for that situation. He had tons of experience as a top assistant and head coach. They also paid him a lot more than what Marist seems willing to pay to get a guy of his stature. In his final yr, I believe he made double what Brady or CM makes. They better be willing to spend if they go another route.
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ggaff
MAAC POY
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Post by ggaff on Feb 12, 2011 8:32:01 GMT -5
My guess is that they'll win 10.
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Post by nomar33 on Feb 12, 2011 8:33:18 GMT -5
You mention he senior leadership has been missing... very true..... but these kids are getting sooo much more playing time then most other freshman..... so shouldn't their development be quicker? Shouldn't we better the second of this year then the first? Are we? Do you think this team is better now then beginning of the year? I sure doesn't look that way on the court.
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ctfoxfan
All-MAAC 1st Team
Marist Athletics, strive to be under budget!!
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Post by ctfoxfan on Feb 12, 2011 8:38:18 GMT -5
Where are you getting 15 wins? At this point there is no juco and unless morton is the next coming of earl monroe we not see even 10 wins.
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Post by nomar33 on Feb 12, 2011 8:45:24 GMT -5
15 wins was my fantasy number for year 5
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Post by nomar33 on Feb 12, 2011 8:47:18 GMT -5
I just want to get an understanding of how much patience i need... year 4 doesnt look good, and if year 5 is 15 wins then i need to wait until year 6 until we "might" be compete in the MAAC
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ggaff
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Post by ggaff on Feb 12, 2011 8:49:35 GMT -5
I think that they have all showed signs. I think the the thing that makes it tough is that they all need to be good on the same night. The suspensions, injuries, and losing all add up. Mentally, if these guys just survive, it's saying something. I agree. The results are horrible. I think if that he brought in a no-nonsense scoring big man, that could help more than you might think. A guy that takes charge and isn't afraid. Looking back, I think that Murray needed to bring in an established coach to calm the seas and then go for the rising star.
It's senior leadership(and pts, rebs, and assists). Let's face it, we lost our last coach over money and sub-par facilities. Then we try to go with a an unproven head coach. Something doesn't add up... For me it's crazy. If we're talking about paying a coach an extra $100,000 to make sure you have the best program in the MAAC, it will pay for itself.
Back to the other thing. I think our kids have been pretty good. If we had McCaffrey coaching them, we'd be better. But we won't pay the top money. We're always asking our coaches to do more with less. They constantly cut corners. I just don't get it...
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ctfoxfan
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Post by ctfoxfan on Feb 12, 2011 8:49:47 GMT -5
Thats the problem. The fans, alum, admins and students are done with dreaming. The men's program is on a morphine drip. The reality sucks.
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Post by yankee on Feb 12, 2011 8:50:28 GMT -5
Honestly, our hope for next year is for Marist to lose by 40 in a couple of the games that are left. Something needs to MAKE the admin of Marist see the light. If Marist gets 10 wins next year and any of Martins supporters are happy, that is SAD. This team isn't even competitive on the road. They have no clue how to play offense. If so many of you see the talent in the players, well, they are being USED horribly. They are not being put in the right offense, they are not being taught how to play defense correctly. NOTHING positive is going on. This hard to say, but we have to root for some horrific blow out losses these next few games. Attack that all you want, its reality. If Martin is back next year, and he gets 5 or 6 MAAC wins, they will bring him back. That is not right on so many levels. Make the damn move Marist or you will have 600 fans in the seats next year. Stop using the WBB program as a way to quell the fans. Its not gonna be allowed anymore. Red fox club will eventually have enough.
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ggaff
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Post by ggaff on Feb 12, 2011 8:56:42 GMT -5
I said 10 was what I expected didn't I? I said 15 is what fans should expect in a normal year 4. Based on what I've seen and who's coming in, I expect 8-10 wins in the MAAC. I'm also not saying that they should definitely keep the coach. That will be Murray's decision. My take is that if he isn't 100% sold on CM, he should go in a different direction now. But he better bring in an experienced guy to get the thing on track. Can't pay rookie money either or they'll never get it right.
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ggaff
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Post by ggaff on Feb 12, 2011 9:05:01 GMT -5
I agree with you Yankee. I don't like the offense either. And I don't like counting on the women's team for yearly excitement.
As someone put it, I'm a Marist supporter, not a CM guy. I liked him as a person coming in. I was very surprised they hired him. I'm not gonna ridicule him. I still wish him well. If firing him is in the best interest of the program, do it. Then spend some freakin money and give the next coach the resources he needs to win. The McCann better be fixed up so it's at least a D-1 facility. I love watching games there but it it somewhat embarrassing that it's called a high school gym and you're D-1.
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