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Post by nomar33 on May 2, 2009 9:18:02 GMT -5
Not sure how the Poughkeepsie Journal works but this is the second time I have sent a email about a story and sure enough the next day an article comes out amazing im in Georiga. www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20090502/NEWS05/905020331&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSELGood morning and thank you for your email. We are definitely following this story. A few questions, if I may... --Who did you speak to in our sports and business departments, and when? That will help me backtrack. --Do you have a connection to the story? And what is TCI-Search and its relevance to the case? Thank you. Stuart Shinske executive editor ________________________________ From: XXXXXXx Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:46 PM To: Shinske, Stuart Subject: Kat Lyons Stuart – I tried the sports desk and business desk and neither take responsibility for covering this story. On or about March 18 you published a story about Kat Lyons suing Marist for bias, and you covered her side of the story – how Marist kicked a “disabled” kid out of school rather then helping her, you even went as far a publishing her legal complaint for all to see. Obviously Marist was not commenting on up coming litigation but that is where you left it without any follow up. I went on Pacer which everyone has access to and was able to read the depositions for the Marist women’s coaches and some of the Marist administration concerning Kat Lyons. It talks about the numerous threats by Kat to commit suicide, and how Marist tried to offer her help but no matter what help Marist could offer it could not guarantee her safety because there was no way they could watch her 24/7. If I was in their position I too would rather face this law suit then one that might have involved the words “wrongful death” by just printing one side of the story it comes off like Marist is a bunch of uncaring souls who only want to protect their butts, it also come off like her “relationship with a teammate” was a big issue being a lesbian. If you read message boards across the nation this is the type of thing that was posted after your story, please follow up and present both sides I have to believe that you are able to report on a deposition that is public record and even use quotes from said document. Thank you Nomar
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Post by yankee on May 2, 2009 13:18:13 GMT -5
Excellent job Nomar. Nice to see both sides are now out there and now it can be handled privately like it should be after this point forward. Poughkeepsie Journal, while obviously responsive to readers needs someone with some forsight in regards to what they report oviously. Again, excellent job.
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Post by nomar33 on May 2, 2009 15:10:37 GMT -5
yankee - the me that is you on the PoJo comments section under yankeeisback - i couldnt argue with that moron any longer - has to be a relative or good friend of Kats as no one can be that stupid
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Post by tlippy15 on May 2, 2009 15:46:24 GMT -5
Does anyone even know who infact Kat was in a relationship with?
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Post by oldfox on May 2, 2009 16:16:13 GMT -5
yankee - the me that is you on the PoJo comments section under yankeeisback - i couldnt argue with that moron any longer - has to be a relative or good friend of Kats as no one can be that stupid First, a "good friend" wouldn't be taking her disabilities side, they would be taking their friends side. I think trouble-maker is a more apt description. These people can't separate the disease from the person. Sounds like Marist took reasonable steps to protect the student and help the person beat the disease.
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Post by yankee on May 2, 2009 21:29:20 GMT -5
yankee - the me that is you on the PoJo comments section under yankeeisback - i couldnt argue with that moron any longer - has to be a relative or good friend of Kats as no one can be that stupid Yea that was me. That moron sounded like a freaking computer. Same crap over and over. Dopes like that actually hurt their viewpoint because the readers sees he is a moron and doesn't want to be associated with a dope like him .
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Post by reddy on May 3, 2009 8:16:06 GMT -5
Two points:
1. The PoJo story is a little misleading about her elgibility to return in the spring of 2010. I, too, have read the affidavits (not depositions--two very different things) and the exhibits to them. The letter "suspending" Kat says she is elgible to "re-apply" for reinstatement in the spring of 2010. Do you think there is a chance in hell they will accept her re-application and voluntarily take her back under any circumstances? Even if they would fairly evaluate her application, she would be ineligble under the NCAA so there is no chance she will re-apply to Marist if she wants to continue playing college basketball. Marist knew very well what it was doing by saying she only was "suspended". They can claim they didn't expel her when, in reality, that's exactly what they did.
2. Does any one on this board know of anyone that has suffered from depression? If so, report them to their employers so they can be disciplined and fired immediately because surely their employers cannot watch them 24/7 or provide them with the medical help they need and there is a chance they will commit suicide at the work place.
Depression is an illness, just like cancer, diabetes, etc. its treatable, just like other illnesses. You don't fire, suspend or expel someone just because they have a disease. The law does not allow you to discriminate against someone because he has a disease. That's what happened here. But that's for the court to decide.
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Post by nomar33 on May 3, 2009 8:59:15 GMT -5
Your #2 part in your post really makes me think - are you just that stupid to make a statement like that - as what you said has absolutely no significance. "if you know someone with depression report them to their boss so they can be fired" - I'd fire you right now for your stupidity and short sightedness.
Here is a girl who told a coach she wanted to kill herself, the coach found her in the fetal position with pills in a parking lot. She wanted to kill her self in locker room.
They sent her to a therapist.
She said she was still thinking about jumping out a window.
They sent her for more HELP
less then a month later she told them that she still was thinking about killing herself - she even went as far as to research online how many pills to take so she would make sure to kill herself and not just get sick.
School sent her to more therapists
She said that she still had suicidal thoughts and that it would come as a surprise when she did do it.
Even after school she actually attempted suicide and was being treated in a hospital according to a text her brother sent.
Is the NOT the schools responsiblity to get her better, just to TRY to help her (which they most certanly did) - I doesn't seem like the doctors or therapists where getting through to her. And if a person at a company talked that much about killing themselves in the open and was even getting help I hope the company would suspend them as well
SHE WAS NOT EXPELLED AS YOU PUT IT JUST SUSPENDED.
Yeah they can't watch her 24/7 so when someone is that obsessed with killing themselves "not just simply diagnosed with depression" and doesn't seem to be responding to therapy then what is left? Keep her in school continue to give her the help and hope she doesn't kill herself.
No matter what steps the school could take if she did kill herself there is no doubt that there would be a wrongfull death suit brought against the school because they didn't do enough.
And as far as harming herself or others - people think that because she didn't threaten bodily harm to another student that we are being too harsh. I'm sorry I wouldn't want my kid to face the trauma physiologically of finding her roommate or friend dead in her dorm or in the locker room. That is a risk to other students and not just to herself - finding a dead person can have repercussions to another students mind. The school didn’t throw her out at the first sign of trouble but when they realized her problems where worse then something they could handle - they suspended her so she could get the help she needed. And they took the well being of the other 4000 kids at Marist into consideration.
You people that are so critical amaze me you act like people have filed suits against Marist all the time – I actually can’t find any other suit similar to this brought up against Marist – so they must be doing something right.
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Post by nomar33 on May 3, 2009 9:01:08 GMT -5
One more thing the LAW most certainly allows you to suspend someone - not fire - but suspend (with pay) YES, if they feel it will help the person recover
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Post by nomar33 on May 3, 2009 9:20:15 GMT -5
Disability ACT - she is not necessarly protected under this ACT
Although clinical depression is a mental impairment under the ADA, not everyone with clinical depression will qualify for coverage. In 1999, the Supreme Court ruled ( Sutton v. United Airlines, Inc., Murphy v. United Parcel Service, Inc. and Albertson's Inc. v. Kirkinburg) that the determination of whether a person has an ADA "disability" must take into consideration whether the person is substantially limited in performing a major life activity when using a "mitigating measure". This means that even though clinical depression is a permanent condition, if you are able through medications and therapy to perform major life activities without difficulty you will not meet the ADA's definition of "disability."
While the employer had the right to require a post-offer medical examination, he cannot withdraw the job offer solely because you revealed you have a disability. Instead, the employer can withdraw the job offer only if it can show that you are unable to perform the essential functions of the job (with or without reasonable accommodation), or that you pose a significant risk of causing substantial harm to yourself or others. - yes yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by reddy on May 3, 2009 11:55:37 GMT -5
I simply gave my opinion and stayed away from personal attacks. Since you began it, lets take the gloves off:
1. Learn to read your "depositions". Coach Gebbia did not state that she found Kat laying in a fetal position clutching pills.
2. You seem to have gone to law school based on your last couple of posts. Consequently, don't you think it is strange that Marist could not get a SINGLE psychiatrist or other medical doctor to testify at the disciplinary hearing or to put in proof at the hearing held in court to support of their position? Marist's lawyers are top-notch--they didn't mistakenly overlook that.
3. You claim she "attempted suicide" after she left school. Not even Marist's lawyers made such a bold statement. You should really think twice before doing so yourself.
4. It's clear that all you intend to do is slander this girl. You went and reviewed the court files which you had every right to do. You then wrote a long post on this blog giving your spin on the case (interestingly, you never quoted anything that was said in Kat's papers in support of her motion). Apparently, that was not enough to satisfy your urge to further publicize this, so you wrote to the newspaper, chastizing them for not following up on it (I note your use of quotation marks around "disabled" -- very classy) and then after the follow up article appears, you want to make sure you get a pat on the back by posting your email to the newsapaper so everyone makes sure you get the credit for the article.
5. You've drank the school's Kool-aid by continuing to say she has been suspended. Don't be so naive. The school put together a kangaroo court to discipline her. The court papers indicate that the decision to throw her out had already been made prior to the hearing taking place. She wanted to bring a lawyer who the school refused to allow. The decision to "suspend" her was made by a three person panel. However, the school administrator that acted like the D.A. not only sat in on the hearing, which was proper, but also sat in on the deliberations by the panel. That's like having a D.A. in a criminal case sitting in when the jury is deliberating.
6. In any event, based on your thorough and detailed analysis of the "depositions", interpretation of the applicable law, and self-proclaimed expertise, there are several things that all of us might as well accept: (1) Kat will never again be a student at Marist; (2) the court will shortly throw her court case out; and (3) Marist wasted a lot of money by hiring its lawyers when they should have hired you instead.
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ctfoxfan
All-MAAC 1st Team
Marist Athletics, strive to be under budget!!
Posts: 1,551
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Post by ctfoxfan on May 3, 2009 13:26:24 GMT -5
2. Does any one on this board know of anyone that has suffered from depression? If so, report them to their employers so they can be disciplined and fired immediately because surely their employers cannot watch them 24/7 or provide them with the medical help they need and there is a chance they will commit suicide at the work place. Out someone suffering with depression...definitely no. Out someone who is suicidal...absolutely. reddy, Something to remember; the family made the choice to take this whole thing public. Maybe the family's lawyer sold them a line of crap but it was they who proceeded publicly. I'd bet my last nickle that it was their lawyer who made the initial press release.
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Post by reddy on May 3, 2009 13:47:16 GMT -5
Two points:
1. Why is outing someone that had suicidal thoughts acceptable while outing someone suffering from depression not acceptable? I don't understand the logic. There are hundred of thousands of people who suffer from mental illness. Young girls especially experience this whether it is depression, bulimia, anorexia or a whole host of other conditions. If Kat's family decided to stand up for her rights, that was their choice. You can't fault them for doing so.
2. Let's assume that it was Kat's lawyer that made the first disclosure. Why wouldn't Marist then be the one to disclose their response to the lawsuit rather than this guy in Georgia? Marist has more than enough P.R. people and it clearly has a relationship with the newspaper so it could have easily gotten a story written to put themselves in the best light. (Also raises the issue why they didn't -- maybe because they know they do not have the best case?). My point was this guy in Georgia has been advocating the school's position, in a very one-sided fashion, often incorrectly to put this young girl in the worst terrible light, and then wants to make sure everybody knows that he is the one who got the story in the paper. Kinda sad, actually.
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Post by reddy on May 3, 2009 13:58:13 GMT -5
CTFoxFan:
I re-read your post and want to clarify my response. Obviously, if you know someone who is suicidal (something that happens from depression) you should reach out to help them. My point that you quoted was to the Georgian who took the position that everyone that suffers from depression should be thrown out of the school. There's a very thin line where depression progesses to the point of someone having suicidal thoughts which then progresses to where someone actually attempts to commit suicide. At all stages they need help. Schools and businesses are not allowed by law, however, to indiscriminately "discard" students or workers because of a mental illness. That was my point.
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Post by nomar33 on May 3, 2009 14:14:39 GMT -5
ok you are right per the affidavit -
1) it was Ms Viani - who " drove to meet Ms Lyons and found her in the fetal possition in the middle of the parking lot. It was raining heavily and Ms Lyons was clutching a bottle of pills" much better a student had to find her team mate in that position no emotional issue there.
2) no where in either the complaint or affidavits did it say Marist COULDN'T get one it just states that it didn't - poor judgement on the college's part there.
3) During the week of March 16th I was advised by a number of player that Ms Lyons was call them on their cell phones and sending them text messages. I also learned later that another member of the basketball team has spoken directly with Ms. Lyons, stated that Ms Lyons told her she had to go to the emergency room because she had overdosed on anxiety medicine.
Exhibit A - "Ok this is her brother, she is in the emergency room right now....."
4) Sorry if you had an issue with me puting up parts of the actual Disabilities Act - i'm sorry that the way the Act is writen means that someone isn't allowed to be covered should she pose a threat to herself. I didn't get to write it.
5) And you can kangaroo court this thing all you want - Marist was so in the right with how they handled it and had she not sued I truley believe she would have been welcomed back.
And if ask the people on this sight that know me - no one could have been more upset that this happened to her. I was so excited to see this girl play alongside Fitz. I think it was going to be something special. I also don't think any of her team mates wouldn't take her back as they all seem to truley care about her.
No this is for all you people who make it sound like Marist heard about the thoughts of suicide and then kicked her out. The college did plenty (at least all they should be expected to do). Your asinie statement about "tell your boss about someone depressed so they can be fired" was just THAT stupid.
I read your conter points and wonder are we reading the same affidavit - the fact that your biggest defense against me is me calling them depositions wow - ok you got me doesnt change what was actually said in them.
Also ask people on this sight that know me without going into details - there was another basketball player that had a serious medical condition and the school and the team worked through it. Biggest diffence that I can see is she was responding to the help. Ms. Lyons just didn't seem to be responding to any help that was offered to her.
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