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Post by yankee on Mar 18, 2013 23:50:16 GMT -5
I don't think $300,000 is unreasonable.... If Siena could pay McCaffrey $400,000+. , then Marist should easily be able to afford that... Marist has twice the enrollment. I'm assuming that should more than make up for any discrepancies in attendance revenue. Raise ticket prices from $10 to $12 if you have to. That's still a bargain. I'm just sayin. If they care about winning, they'll do it. Everything they've done in the past hasn't worked so they need to change. Siena averages 6500 + fans during a down year. Marist has been averaging around 1500 the past couple years. Plus Siena charges more than double.
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Post by yankee on Mar 18, 2013 23:51:28 GMT -5
If they pay $300,000 , they won't lose a good coach to the next level up... How about a contract with incentives??? Not sure what's allowable via NCAA rules but they can't go the cheap route. This isn't the same as women's basketball or other MAAC sports. I know there are a lot of opinions on women's coaches and how good they are. Do you guys honestly think a women's coach who makes $125,000 would turn down $500,000 a yr to coach men? Unless they are all philanthropists, it's because they aren't offered. It's totally different and is no way a guaranteed thing. I am sorry, but what is the point of bringing up womens basketball here?
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Post by yankee on Mar 18, 2013 23:52:40 GMT -5
Of course, neither was hiring a high school coach a guaranteed thing for the women. Unfortunately, the administration, not necessarily at the AD, has a reputation and practice of lowballing coaches' salaries. AD has done a GREAT job in his position. If his position was head of Mens college basketball, yes he stunk. He is the ATHLETIC DIRECTOR. We are basketball fans, his job is more than just that.
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,214
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Post by ggaff on Mar 19, 2013 6:40:23 GMT -5
The reason I brought it up is in talking about the philosophy of the school in general. Men's basketball , in my opinion, is a different animal.. A different approach needs to be taken to ensure success. In terms of women's basketball, I was just saying that being successful as a coach in women's in no way ensures success in mens. Just like being a great high school coach in no way makes you a guaranteed lock to be successful in college. Just ask Notre Dame. Jerry Faust led a dominant high school program. He was a great high school coach. Can't call him a great coach overall... Can we??
The bottom line is.. They better get some input on this one.. Or we'll still be saying what a great "overall" sports program Marist has and not being able to bring up men's basketball in a sports bar... lol.
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,214
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Post by ggaff on Mar 19, 2013 6:43:52 GMT -5
About the money, I'm putting everything into the equation.. Total $ brought in by the school. I would have to think Marist has more available than Siena... My point is that you generally get what you pay for. If they don't match their competition, they'll probably come up on the short end. And that's ok but we'd just have to accept that's what Marist is...
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Post by reddfoxxnation on Mar 19, 2013 8:31:49 GMT -5
Ggaff ,you open up a can of worms if we pay too much for a coach ..If (god forbid) he doesn't work out then what do you pay the next coach ??If he works out fine give him a healthy raise ..But for fair market value we can get a guy who knows what hes doing a will call a time out when we're at the end of close game when we have 3 timeouts left.Just give us a guy with the basics .,fundamentals about coaching .Coach Martin had tremendous desire just not good decisions with the team.I'm happy that Lee will stay on at least for now and I hope he stays on with the new crew ,would have liked for him to go interim toward the end of this year .But lets get a guy that knows match up D and O.
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Post by reddfoxxnation on Mar 19, 2013 8:42:36 GMT -5
And A coach will be looking at a situation with possible depatures of players .Not an easy situation for an established coach to come into.First task -get a coach ..second task -keep as much of team together as we can .
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Post by maristlocalitalian on Mar 19, 2013 8:57:23 GMT -5
We need an established 'Marist' guy. We need someone to get the community involved with the program, get fans back supporting our team and we need a Marist guy. It's been forever sense we have had success. If we are going to be successful we DO NOT need recycled Assistant coaches, guys that got fired at D1, or expensive big names! We NEED something fresh that has a connection to the College.
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ctfoxfan
All-MAAC 1st Team
Marist Athletics, strive to be under budget!!
Posts: 1,552
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Post by ctfoxfan on Mar 19, 2013 9:06:13 GMT -5
We need an established 'Marist' guy. We need someone to get the community involved with the program, get fans back supporting our team and we need a Marist guy. It's been forever sense we have had success. If we are going to be successful we DO NOT need recycled Assistant coaches, guys that got fired at D1, or expensive big names! We NEED something fresh that has a connection to the College. Not sure if I agree. What is a "Marist" guy? Give us an example...names
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Post by pinions on Mar 19, 2013 9:08:35 GMT -5
First, Ggaff, I probably not post when tired and cranky. I understand your point about men and women's basketball being different and think it goes both ways as to a successful coach in one gender coaching the other. However, the great ones could probably coach either.
Second, the problem for Marist is not the AD but its general take it or leave it attitude towards coaches and salaries. Here's our offer, don't make any counter proposals or tweaks (even on the edges), and accept it because we know best. I do not think that position/stance/policy, while perhaps enforced by the AD, is made at the AD level.
Third, while I think Brady clearly violated his contract, "stole" the recruiting class and Marist was correct to go after him, it probably scared off some potential coaches, and along with the "negotiating" policy, makes it very difficult to attract high quality candidates.
In the end, I think the "Do you know who we are attitude" is a problem that needs to be addressed before there is any rchance of landuing a high value coach. The reality is that Marist is a small college, in a generally mid mid-major conference, in the Northeast, (which is nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about), that carries itself, in dealing with coaches and athletics, like it is an SEC or Big 10 program.
BTW, I believe President Murray has done and is doing a great job with & for Marist and Timm Murray a fantastic job with athletics, even with my the drawbacks I mentioned, based only on my dealings with the athletic program (FWIW).
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Post by nomar33 on Mar 19, 2013 9:26:49 GMT -5
Yeah i agree someone with ties to the college would be nice as long as they have a strong connection with the NY (Northeast) recruiting scene.... but to ct.'s point is there such a qualified person out there?
You look at the women's program and not only has Giorgis created a traditional power but he has set up the program for years after he is gone - you look at all the former players that are in coaching now, that will be in the pool of candidates when time comes or course Gebbia get first shot - that is how you find people with "ties" to the school/program - don't think that exists on men's side.
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Post by yankee on Mar 19, 2013 11:20:32 GMT -5
We need an established 'Marist' guy. We need someone to get the community involved with the program, get fans back supporting our team and we need a Marist guy. It's been forever sense we have had success. If we are going to be successful we DO NOT need recycled Assistant coaches, guys that got fired at D1, or expensive big names! We NEED something fresh that has a connection to the College. Is this Esposito for Minnesota again under a different screen name now?
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Post by coachrt on Mar 19, 2013 11:20:34 GMT -5
I happen to follow a number of message boards and it is amazing how people just recycle the same "hot" coaching names. I understand most people don't have intimate knowledge of candidates and only go off of what they hear in the media as the latest and greatest next coach. The same thing happens with AD's. They all get caught up with trying to make a splash without trying to find someone that fits their institutional values. Hiring an assistant from a top ten program isn't always the best. Those guys operate on a totally different level and don't have the same struggles that mid-low major programs encounter. Vermont is a great example. Two years ago promoted their unknown assistant (John Becker) and bypassed a lot of "hot" named big program Assistants. The results have been nothing but successful. These guys that are toiling away trying to get a break are more often hungrier then most, humble, and will work twice has hard to get it done. The one thing is certain, there is no guarantee whoever you hire will be successful. It is all based on hard work, relationships, and a little bit of luck. I also don't understand why more AD's don't think outside the box. Look at Iona. Cleuss was a lower level coach as was Bozzella their women's coach and both are successful. It is all about the makeup of your coaching staff. If you are a coach with no D1 experience, hire a staff of proven D1 recruiters. Anyway, that is just my opinion and below is a list of potential candidates that could find success at a place like Marist.
1. Stephen Sauers-former Marist Asst....loves the area and would stick around a while 2. Eric Eaton or Sean Doherty-Asst. Coaches Quinnipiac 3. Chris Casey-HC CW Post-former D1 asst. 4. Jeff Brown-HC Middlebury-Former asst. at Vermont 5. Mike Maker-HC Williams-Former D1 Asst. 6. Joe Burke-HC Skidmore-Former Asst. at Navy 7. Joe Esposito-Dir. of Operations U of Minn....Marist alum 8. Reggie Witherspoon-recently let go by U of Buffalo 9. Mike MacDonald-HC Medaille former HC Canisius 10. John Becker-HC Vermont-doubt he would leave though
Most all of the lower level mentioned above have been successful head coaches in challenging academic environments. If they surround themselves with the right staff, there is no reason they couldn't win. Since Marist is cash strapped, these guys would come cheap. I'm not saying not to pursue a high profile name, but why not think outside the box a bit more often.
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Post by yankee on Mar 19, 2013 11:27:40 GMT -5
great post coachrt, and on that list I like Mike Maker if he has the northeast connections. D1 experience and has a great record at Williams. However, if they even considered someone like Mike MacDonald, I think my head would explode out of rage. I have to research some of your other names though.
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Post by reddfoxxnation on Mar 19, 2013 11:38:51 GMT -5
the coach from Bucknell won a d 3 title and is now very sucessful d1 ..Thats what I'm looking at someone with sucess at a college level ,,and yes not an assistant ..although like i said before I would have loved to see Lee get a shot at it at the end of the season .
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