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Bower
Jan 18, 2016 23:35:45 GMT -5
Post by yankee on Jan 18, 2016 23:35:45 GMT -5
see, I agree Maker is going to be a good coach. I am very happy he is the coach. BUT EVERY time this board tries to soften what is going on by talking about the Bower recruiting class, trust me, you will get a response. He did a lot to turn around the crap that was going on behind the scenes. He did a lot for Marist college basketball as an assistant. He is RESPECTED ENOUGH in basketball circles to get not 1, but 2 GM jobs. This will not be on Bower. And I literally have not spoken to him ever. But, this pillow protection crap pisses me off to no end. JUST GET THE JOB DONE.
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Post by Red Fox 5 on Jan 19, 2016 0:48:28 GMT -5
and I will always be back to say his recruiting put us in a giant stinking hole too. I only look at things from a "what did you do for Marist in recent history" view. His NBA success is irrelevant to me and his assistant success here has expired.
Martin reeked, Bower reeked. Two reeking coaches over 6 years. When this topic comes up we should all probably indict the administration that oversaw two reeking hires.
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,223
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Post by ggaff on Jan 19, 2016 7:03:50 GMT -5
I definitely think they're on schedule. Don't you go into most MAAC games thinking they can win?? If they had an Adam Kemp type, I think they'd have a minimum of 4 more wins right now. These close losses would be wins. Missing the FTs killed them against Rider.
I will expect that they get a big for next yr. They could improve dramatically. I liked Bower, but I agree about the roster clogging. If none are good enough to contribute, that's a big hit. Would have been much better off saving a few for Maker to recruit.. lol
The tone is definitely different..
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,223
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Bower
Jan 19, 2016 7:05:26 GMT -5
Post by ggaff on Jan 19, 2016 7:05:26 GMT -5
And I like Bower. Just disappointed that his recruits have set them back.
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ken
All-MAAC 1st Team
Posts: 1,243
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Post by ken on Jan 19, 2016 7:53:34 GMT -5
And I like Bower. Just disappointed that his recruits have set them back. Martin had good players left over from Magarity & Bower when he took over, hence the good first year. Then he tried to recruit kids who did not go to class etc. Then the administration put a stop to that and tied his hands. Then they finally got the balls to fire him. Then they brought in Bower. Jeff had no time to recruit his first year due to the late hiring, so he brought in players he could find who could meet the Marist academic standards and could play basketball. We have since found the level of basketball those guys could play at. Both Chuck Martin and to a lesser degree Jeff Bower are responsible for the hole that Mike Maker has to fill. And as I've stated previously it was deep. The first Maker recruiting class equals the best freshmen class I've seen in the years, since Rik Smits, I've been following the Red Foxes. It is equal to the Jordan, Winningham class. Over time it may even be better, we'll see. Bottom line is that Bower did not help one iota, sorry, but Martin is the one who started the ball rolling down the hill.
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ggaff
MAAC POY
Posts: 3,223
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Post by ggaff on Jan 19, 2016 7:58:28 GMT -5
I'm thankful that Martin got us Hart and Lewis. I wish one of JB's guys was half as good as those guys. Not dissing the guy. He did get a late start. Just find it hard to believe that none are good enough to ever win a starting job. Seems odd that it could be that bad..
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ken
All-MAAC 1st Team
Posts: 1,243
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Post by ken on Jan 19, 2016 8:01:09 GMT -5
I agree with ggaff The tone is definitely different now under Maker. He just needs time to overcome the years of lousy recruiting. Lastly, I do not think it is fair to compare Mike's Williams teams record to the Marist record only because when he got to Marist he had players he may not have even tried to recruit to D3 Williams.
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ken
All-MAAC 1st Team
Posts: 1,243
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Bower
Jan 19, 2016 8:05:00 GMT -5
Post by ken on Jan 19, 2016 8:05:00 GMT -5
I'm thankful that Martin got us Hart and Lewis. I wish one of JB's guys was half as good as those guys. Not dissing the guy. He did get a late start. Just find it hard to believe that none are good enough to ever win a starting job. Seems odd that it could be that bad.. Yes! Martin was able to recruit very good players. We should be thankful for Lewis & Hart. But Chuckie brought in some dregs too, plus was an awful game coach.
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Post by nomar33 on Jan 19, 2016 8:08:49 GMT -5
Just get it done? If i was to give the greatest coach in the entire world Marist's championship intramural basketball team and tell him to win the MAAC - he could't do it no matter how good he is at coaching the talent just isn't there.
That is what Maker inherited (with the exception of Hart), he is basically trying to win with just freshman and Hart. This years freshman class would beat last years freshman class by 20-30 points. How can I judge Bower? by only thing i can; his recruiting class, which is less then stellar (It is a sad thing but the fact the Maker had guts to let some kids know that they were not going to get PT and gave them a chance to transfer was great)
Last year was a complete waste of Maker's time as far as turning program around, he played the cards he was dealt. (Yeah he knew that before accepting job so what?) He took the job knowing that last year was going to be just what it was and he was going to concentrate on his first recruiting class - guess what great success.
Next years class is even more important if he doesn't follow this great class up with another - so where I am a little nervous is that we did not get any early signees.
I said prior to season that success for me this year would be seeing Freshman who can score double digits consistently and be in contention for ROY (even win a few weeks) - I am sold that Parker, Lamb, and Palsson all have ALL-MAAC potential (by their Jr/Sr seasons not this year), I am also convinced that Funk & Knudsen have had solid Freshman campaigns.
We have 3 losses that i still have a hard time swallowing.
Next year Maker will not have the leeway to lose those games and not get crucified. But to me this is his 1st year and I like what he brought in that is all I am judging him on this year.
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Bower
Jan 19, 2016 10:49:14 GMT -5
Post by reddfoxxnation on Jan 19, 2016 10:49:14 GMT -5
and Id have McClenaghan ,Brooks and Momah hitting some serious weights /protein powder etc ..when the season ends and even now to beef up and get mean under the boards..that is the responsibility of the strength /conditioning coach ..
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Bower
Jan 19, 2016 17:08:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by yankee on Jan 19, 2016 17:08:35 GMT -5
and I will always be back to say his recruiting put us in a giant stinking hole too. I only look at things from a "what did you do for Marist in recent history" view. His NBA success is irrelevant to me and his assistant success here has expired. Martin reeked, Bower reeked. Two reeking coaches over 6 years. When this topic comes up we should all probably indict the administration that oversaw two reeking hires. Which member of the administration would you like to blast as well? Shall we blame the traveling secretary, the team cook, the athletic trainer as well? Maker does not need this. Only reason to keep bringing up past is to cushion the guy now. He is doing many things well, good for him
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Bower
Jan 19, 2016 17:24:49 GMT -5
Post by Red Fox 5 on Jan 19, 2016 17:24:49 GMT -5
and I will always be back to say his recruiting put us in a giant stinking hole too. I only look at things from a "what did you do for Marist in recent history" view. His NBA success is irrelevant to me and his assistant success here has expired. Martin reeked, Bower reeked. Two reeking coaches over 6 years. When this topic comes up we should all probably indict the administration that oversaw two reeking hires. Which member of the administration would you like to blast as well? Shall we blame the traveling secretary, the team cook, the athletic trainer as well? Maker does not need this. Only reason to keep bringing up past is to cushion the guy now. He is doing many things well, good for him On a program that is over 100 games under .500 the last 8 years it's fair to blast anyone. I think the traveling secretary is pretty solid. The best in the MAAC. The team cook though needs to perfect his pizza and french fry recipes though if my crack inside sources are correct. The previous comments arent meant to prop up Maker. He's done a real good job across the board on the areas where it is fair to rate him. I'm just stating facts that Bowers terrible, and Martin's inconsistent, recruiting were huge boat anchors for this years rosters potential for success. That makes those past follies relevant to the current situation. I didnt start this thread but it was certainly a perfect opportunity to express my views on it again. I'm sure you will hear about it again : ) And I am sure I will hear about pillow protection again.
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Bower
Jan 19, 2016 19:18:21 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by yankee on Jan 19, 2016 19:18:21 GMT -5
Redfox5, I think you want to throw down:). I will get some sponsors from serta/sleepys, you get some from the companies that could make some punching bags with bowers face. Winner takes all. Wrestling or mma, you make the call.
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fox94
MAAC POY
Posts: 2,977
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Post by fox94 on Jan 19, 2016 19:28:49 GMT -5
Ok. Bower bad. Martin the worst F-Ing hire imaginable and Maker looking good but jury is still out.
I along with many here just want wins.
I don't know how much more losing I can take. It's been a looong time since we had a good team.
Sigh
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Bower
Jan 19, 2016 19:55:42 GMT -5
Post by thekeeper on Jan 19, 2016 19:55:42 GMT -5
We have a very young and talented team out there playing hard. The fix and the facts are pretty much all on the game stat sheets. What we are lacking to win games at this point is basic when you look at the numbers. A good coach can see where he needs to improve the game, and as I said these are basic items that need improvement. All is well within the scope of the team we have. The coach may be over thinking this dilemma, however looking at the numbers some back to improving simple basic free throw problems might just make a big difference between a Win and Loss.
These young men are driven, they just need some polishing up on basics, and that's a coaches job to see that. Play on men and play hard.
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