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Post by yankee on May 26, 2020 22:35:16 GMT -5
Appalachian State cuts 3 sports: Men's indoor track, Men's soccer, Men's tennis sigh. I'll update the list. Shooter, you have been on top of this. In your opinion, do you think many of these teams could be brought back after a year or two hiatus?
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Post by rfalum on May 26, 2020 23:23:51 GMT -5
I know you're not really asking me, but I doubt it. At the D3/D2 levels where athletics are more of a holistic experience for students, there is a greater chance assuming the schools in question don't fold entirely. D3 athletes do not get scholarships and D2 and D3 athletes know that they aren't going professional. Most D1 athletes won't either, but that's another story.
But at D1 this has been the trend over the last decade or so to cut non-revenue sports and use that money to push the revenue sports up more. We'll never know for sure but it wouldn't surprise me if this pandemic just gave schools a convenient out to cut sports that they had been looking to cut for money reasons for years. Tennis teams are small and therefore do not boost enrollment in a significant way. Track is an easy cut because the winter and spring seasons are different sports under NCAA so the athletes technically aren't being "robbed," although that's not really true. And cutting womens sports is much much harder because of Title IX. Notice how on shooter's list most of the sports are men, and three of the most common are swimming, track and field, and tennis?
Plus I don't think a hiatus would last only a year or two, even if a school would plan on bringing these programs back. Sad situation no matter what though.
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Post by shooter on May 26, 2020 23:48:12 GMT -5
Never say never, but I don't think any program cut now will return for years...maybe decades...most will likely not come back, to be brutally honest.
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Post by yankee on May 27, 2020 0:20:50 GMT -5
I know you're not really asking me, but I doubt it. At the D3/D2 levels where athletics are more of a holistic experience for students, there is a greater chance assuming the schools in question don't fold entirely. D3 athletes do not get scholarships and D2 and D3 athletes know that they aren't going professional. Most D1 athletes won't either, but that's another story. But at D1 this has been the trend over the last decade or so to cut non-revenue sports and use that money to push the revenue sports up more. We'll never know for sure but it wouldn't surprise me if this pandemic just gave schools a convenient out to cut sports that they had been looking to cut for money reasons for years. Tennis teams are small and therefore do not boost enrollment in a significant way. Track is an easy cut because the winter and spring seasons are different sports under NCAA so the athletes technically aren't being "robbed," although that's not really true. And cutting womens sports is much much harder because of Title IX. Notice how on shooter's list most of the sports are men, and three of the most common are swimming, track and field, and tennis? Plus I don't think a hiatus would last only a year or two, even if a school would plan on bringing these programs back. Sad situation no matter what though. Great post. I didn't mean to diminish your thoughts, my apologies. Shooter just seems like he has been on this for awhile. I will be honest, I didn't see this attrition happenimg. It's sad.
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Post by yankee on May 27, 2020 0:28:07 GMT -5
I know I am considered a TM shill. I promise you he doesn't know me. I only know him because of Marist. To me, this corona pandemic is a test of athletic directors. Do they care for the few, or do they support as many of the athletes they can? I have always thought Murray is about all the athletes, not just men's basketball.
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Post by shooter on May 27, 2020 7:36:10 GMT -5
I know I am considered a TM shill. I promise you he doesn't know me. I only know him because of Marist. To me, this corona pandemic is a test of athletic directors. Do they care for the few, or do they support as many of the athletes they can? I have always thought Murray is about all the athletes, not just men's basketball. I think it's a little more about presidents and BOTs since they're the ones directing these cuts. AD might provide financial information and suggest which sports they could do without when and if the time comes. For a number of state schools in the so-called G5 (Group of 5 below the Power 5, i.e. MAC/AAC/CUSA/Sun Belt/MWC) that time is now. Notice how the only private school in Division I you've seen on my list is Furman? Huge endowment, more than twice the size of Marist's, but a previous administration over-leveraged the school and built too aggressively. They started men's lacrosse in a non-lax area of the country because a donor gave them 5 years of operating costs...when the money ran out, they had no real plan or desire to keep going. It's fortunate that no MAAC school has yet downsized anything. Much of that is down to how relatively vanishingly little MAAC schools actually spend on non-hoops sports and scholarships. If there's another wave of bad news this fall/winter however, then at that time I would say all bets are off.
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fox94
MAAC POY
Posts: 2,924
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Post by fox94 on May 27, 2020 20:24:33 GMT -5
I know I am considered a TM shill. I promise you he doesn't know me. I only know him because of Marist. To me, this corona pandemic is a test of athletic directors. Do they care for the few, or do they support as many of the athletes they can? I have always thought Murray is about all the athletes, not just men's basketball. He supports men’s basketball? What about FB? The level of support should correlate with Ws and Ls. I think The ratio is a little skewed towards Ls
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Post by rfalum on May 27, 2020 23:47:25 GMT -5
I know I am considered a TM shill. I promise you he doesn't know me. I only know him because of Marist. To me, this corona pandemic is a test of athletic directors. Do they care for the few, or do they support as many of the athletes they can? I have always thought Murray is about all the athletes, not just men's basketball. I think it's a little more about presidents and BOTs since they're the ones directing these cuts. AD might provide financial information and suggest which sports they could do without when and if the time comes. For a number of state schools in the so-called G5 (Group of 5 below the Power 5, i.e. MAC/AAC/CUSA/Sun Belt/MWC) that time is now. Notice how the only private school in Division I you've seen on my list is Furman? Huge endowment, more than twice the size of Marist's, but a previous administration over-leveraged the school and built too aggressively. They started men's lacrosse in a non-lax area of the country because a donor gave them 5 years of operating costs...when the money ran out, they had no real plan or desire to keep going. It's fortunate that no MAAC school has yet downsized anything. Much of that is down to how relatively vanishingly little MAAC schools actually spend on non-hoops sports and scholarships. If there's another wave of bad news this fall/winter however, then at that time I would say all bets are off. I've said it already in the thread but my big fear is MAAC schools going under entirely. Marist is fine, so is Fairfield. But what about schools like rider and st peters?
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Post by nomar33 on May 28, 2020 5:30:51 GMT -5
The Jesuits will keep St Peter’s going worry about Canisius and Rider
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Post by shooter on May 28, 2020 7:29:36 GMT -5
The Jesuits will keep St Peter’s going worry about Canisius Niagara and Rider FTFY
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Post by shooter on May 28, 2020 9:59:51 GMT -5
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Post by rfalum on May 28, 2020 13:51:49 GMT -5
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Post by shooter on May 28, 2020 14:21:21 GMT -5
Brown had 38 varsity sports. The two smallest departments in the MAAC, Niagara and Saint Peter's, sponsor 34 put together. Like, damn. Harvard has 41!!
List updated with that news and a D3 school in Indiana axing golf and tennis.
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Post by shooter on May 30, 2020 9:03:40 GMT -5
almost made it through the Friday news dump without more sports casualties, but Alabama Huntsville (D2) drops m/w tennis and its D1 men's ice hockey program. For many years until Arizona State added hockey, UAH was the only hockey program outside the Northeast/Midwest/Rockies. UAH hockey lives! (for 1 more year anyway). A $500K GoFundMe, matched by equal amounts from a big whale donor or two and the school itself, made the $1.5MM budget for the 2020-21 season. However, the school says the program needs a $2MM per year budget that it can't provide and its conference (WCHA) is dissolving. Most of the other members gave notice last year to withdraw and reform without UAH, Alaska-Fairbanks and Alaska-Anchorage.
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Post by nomar33 on Jun 1, 2020 8:42:46 GMT -5
Four-year college athletic teams eliminated because of budgetary cuts or school closures associated with the coronavirus pandemic, according to Associated Press research through Friday, May 29 (x-denotes school closure) :
DIVISION I (19)
Baseball (2): Bowling Green, Furman.
Men's cross country (1): Akron.
Men's golf (1): Akron.
Men's lacrosse (1): Furman.
Men's soccer (2): Appalachian State, Cincinnati.
Men's swimming (1): East Carolina.
Men's tennis (3): Appalachian State, East Carolina, Green Bay.
Men's track (3): Appalachian State indoor only, Central Michigan, Florida International indoor only.
Men's wrestling (1): Old Dominion.
Women's tennis (3): Akron, East Carolina, Green Bay.
Women's swimming (1): East Carolina.
DIVISION II (47)
Baseball (1): x-Urbana.
Equestrian (1): Tiffin.
Football (2): Florida Tech, x-Urbana.
Men's basketball (2): Notre Dame De Mur, x-Urbana.
Men's cross country (3): Notre Dame De Mur, Rollins, x-Urbana.
Men's golf (3): Notre Dame De Mur, St. Edward's, x-Urbana.
Men's lacrosse (1): Notre Dame De Mur.
Men's soccer (3): Notre Dame De Mur, St. Edward's, x-Urbana.
Men's swimming/diving (2): Tiffin, x-Urbana.
Men's tennis (3): Alabama-Huntsville, St. Edward's, Sonoma State.
Men's track (1): Notre Dame De Mur.
Men's volleyball (1): x-Urbana.
Men's wrestling (1): x-Urbana.
Softball (2): Notre Dame De Mur, x-Urbana.
Women's acrobatics/tumbling (1): x-Urbana.
Women's basketball (2): Notre Dame De Mur, x-Urbana.
Women's cross country (3): Notre Dame De Mur, Rollins, x-Urbana.
Women's golf (2): St. Edward's, x-Urbana.
Women's lacrosse (1): x-Urbana.
Women's soccer (2): Notre Dame De Mur, x-Urbana.
Women's swimming/diving (2): Tiffin, x-Urbana.
Women's tennis (4): Alabama-Huntsville, Fayetteville State, St. Edward's, Sonoma State.
Women's track (1): Notre Dame De Mur.
Women's volleyball (2): Notre Dame De Mur, x-Urbana.
Women's water polo (1): Sonoma State.
DIVISION III (19)
Baseball (1): x-MacMurray.
Football (1): x-MacMurray.
Men's basketball (1): x-MacMurray.
Men's cross country (1): x-MacMurray.
Men's golf (2): Earlham, x-MacMurray.
Men's soccer (1): x-MacMurray.
Men's tennis (1): Earlham.
Men's wrestling (1): x-MacMurray.
Softball (1): x-MacMurray.
Women's basketball (1): x-MacMurray.
Women's cross country (1): x-MacMurray.
Women's golf (2): Earlham, x-MacMurray.
Women's rowing (1): Ohio Wesleyan.
Women's soccer (1): x-MacMurray.
Women's tennis (1): Earlham.
Women's volleyball (1): x-MacMurray.
Women's wrestling (1): x-MacMurray.
NAIA (12)
Men's basketball (1): x-Holy Family.
Men's bowling (1): x-Holy Family.
Men's cross country (1): x-Holy Family.
Men's soccer (1): x-Holy Family.
Men's track (1): x-Holy Family.
Softball (1): x-Holy Family.
Women's basketball (1): x-Holy Family.
Women's bowling (1): x-Holy Family.
Women's cross country (1): x-Holy Family.
Women's soccer (1): x-Holy Family.
Women's track (1): x-Holy Family.
Women's volleyball (1): x-Holy Family.
Note: Brown University reduced its number of sports from 38 to 29 in a move to enhance competitiveness and unrelated to the coronavirus outbreak. Taylor University (Indiana) dropped men's and women's tennis and women's lacrosse in a March 11 announcement unrelated to the coronavirus outbreak.
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